[HoI3] wish list

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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23339 von Riko
ok, i translate your big text minite with google. and i think, i understand the most correctly

i think you wrote many good things. it is to difficult for me now all that write, what i want to say. but i give you quite, that something goes better and differentiated.
hoi is the only game in realtime, with so many intelligence and structure. but it goes better!

many many sprite is hard, not for me, but for the game. i think hoi2 or dd need 1200 then.

one thing is very good what you say. the graphics make this games to the best.
we know that hoi is a game like chess. it is a board game. sadly. we need the nature. we missed that.
and that is difficult to create.

i hope. i understand you correctly.

the better answer give the english people and the german experts.

one question.
do you mean, that hoi3 release in 3d. or the same like hoi2. 2d and 3d combined with all the features, what you write?

i need for translate and write my small text the same time, like you need for your hole text.
helmi_hihi

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  • Guiver
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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23343 von Guiver
I wish for upgradeable divisions (à la Panzer General 2), by all means. And the poorly-movilized militia units that would pop up once the enemy is at the gates of any major city (Barcelona, Paris, Moscow, and so on). Women, olders, youngsters, all marching to the front, barely trained nor equipped, to defend their homes.

Another feature I'd love to see is the ability to assign keys to units, not only from 1 to 10, regardless of branch. I need to get a "1" unit/group of units of the army, and another "1" (with an "a" as modifier) for Air Force units/groups, and yet another "1" for the Navy ("n"?).

Some "move-and-click" saving proposal:
    Once you select a brigade (normally at the top of the pool) you have to got all the way down to assign it, and then back to the top. Move the selected unit window to the top: 2 clicks and you're on your way to assign another brigade.

    When selecting a unit to use the "+" button, one more time you have to go to the top, click the unit, go to bottom, click on "+", up again to select the brigade you wish, and back to the bottom to click the "Ok" button.

    Use the keyboard: once a unit is selected, you can give ordes by a key stroke and then a click on destination. "A" for attack, "M" for move, "I" for interdiction, etc. In DD you need 2 clicks (select unit, point destination) and 1 click or "enter" to get the unit moving/attacking.

    The units in a province should be sortable: the ones that are fit for action on top, the ones that need to rest and regroup to the bottom.
    Other sort order could be rank (Fieldmarschalls on top, Majors at the bottom). And yet another way to sort them out: the ones directed to province A are shown together, and then the ones directed to province B (I hate to select the whole bunch to then deselect dozens of units to sort out the ones I'm looking for). Maybe a color shade would help. One more: to select only the units that are "foot", or the ones that contains motorized/mechanized/armor units.

I never get used to sprites (maybe a taste of the past, when I started playing Avalon Hill's Panzerblitz), so I´m in for great counters. There's a lot of work to do about counters, sprites are light-years ahead.

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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23347 von minite1
gepard, I'm glad you were able to translate. I think the type of graphics you made here are fine for the next version. I know 3-d sprites would require a lot of memory for an already memory intensive game. The main thing I don't like about the AI is that it doesn't look at what is actually happening in the game from. For instance, If you get Argentina to ally with you playing Germany, I have yet to see the AI respond to my troop movements 90% of my force to the Americas. I launch my invasion of the US via South America and the every time the AI does the same thing. I've looked at the ini files and if a programmer/modder didn't for-see that type of event the computer takes no action. How about doing a coup on the US and Canada still will not stack their border. That is why I think an AI that is value based, where everything is givin a number, will allow the game to respond better to a human player going off the historical path which happens more times than not. I'm one of those players who controls most of Europe, especially southeastern, before 1939. I don't wait for the Austria event; I go straight to war so I have max build capacity for the entire duration. Yes, I can deal with the decent. I've never seen the AI come close to responding.

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  • king cobra
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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23348 von king cobra

minite1 schrieb: The real big one is a better map. Although I like playing hearts of iron with the province map, I would like to see it more like Railroad Tycoon II. That game has the best map I've ever seen. I know it would take a tremendous amount of memory to pull it off, but computers are improving everyday, and I don't think it would be out of reach. A map like that would bring in new elements as well like elevation. I don't think most tanks today could go up a 50% grade. It would create AOA (avenues of approach) that could be easily defended or ambushed.


This approach would be fantastic, but it would soak up too much memory. While comps. are improving, this would largely gum up the works as a 3d map did in EU3. Much of the processing power in hoi2 currently goes to running the calculations that power the game engine. Adding a costly 3d interface would get in the way of the games main features.
But an option to either disable the 3d, or enable it could solve this.


(I played a lot of railroad tycoon 2 for Dreamcast when I was younger.:bier: )
----

One more, I would like different factories. I know what everyone is thinking, but factories for the different domains (land, sea, and air) instead of generalized industry for everything. If the brigades had 100 units of whatever type (tanks) it would take a factory to build them (constantly) as for all the other units as well. It would make strategic bombing critical by targeting a specific type of industry to slow production. Besides, divisions in real life are not build, they are created by assembling units into brigades and then attaching them to a division. It would open up amazing possibilities for future games as well as modders. Yeah, it's the big naval yard where the graf zepplan was being built that can be targeted before it ever sets sail. That's real warfare. Each units being build would have a "physical location" at a factory instead of just a production menu. I don't think it would be that hard to incorporate that concept either. It could be just like the regular menu except each factory would be list individually showing what they are currently building. It would give a new meaning to a gearing bonus. Now for the fun part (money). Wars cost money just ask president bush. Those factories and units cost not only resources but dollars. If you had three types of factories for the military then what about the average joe. There would have to be another type for consumer goods that is based on demand of population. That's how you would get the money by selling goods to you pop or other countries. It would create the "big" problems most industrialized nations fight. With a limited number of workers what do you build. You can't have tank factories everywhere if the workers are naked and starving. The population of a city or province would be critical for managing your country. Another important note, is that those factories would have to have different production capacities that could be upgraded. I think that would add a few techs. It would also make for some nice political implications when it comes to how long a person could work depending on the type of government. I'm thinking it might even bring in the concept of forced labor. We all know it happened.


I agree a more advanced production system should be implemented, maybe not to the extreme extent like above, but certainly more complex. For instance in the game you can put full production into building naval vessels, and a day later switch full production to infantry, something that in real life would have been impossible.

Possibly having several types of industry, armaments production, engine production, aircraft production, and so on. You should be able to use the wrong industry type for something, but for a hefty penalty, and after a long period of time that industry would become more specialized in producing the equipment it wasn't intended to produce(such as a part of your small arms industry slowly becoming adapt at producing tanks)

*You should be able to produce stuff, store it, and then use that equipment to equip divisions later on [with the build your own division setup].
Also be able to give/sell vehicles and equipment to countries, then they could say equip a division with their own manpower.
This was demonstrated with the lend-lease act in how the US, and Britain gave many vehicles to the USSR, who then equipped their own units with them.

[for the current game engine, the material given to the USSR could be represented by partially complete armor divisions appearing in their production queues, which would be very cheap IC(as the vehicles are already built), and would take less time to complete as all they would really have to due is train the men,(the Russians would still pay manpower)]

---

Also, the system for troops moving into an enemy Provence while fighting the battle needs tweaked.
In many battles I find my self with a Provence about to be cut-off, and the one Provence connecting it about to be captured by the enemy. I send in some troops to the Provence connecting to the one about to be isolated, my hopes are to delay them just a day or two or even a few hours to allow my other forces to escape. Unfortinightly this makes no difference as the enemy still moves into the Provence at the same speed as if he was not fighting his way in. And will arrive at the same time cutting off my other troops. :-( The movement speed while attacking should be cut in half or something.

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  • minite1
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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23357 von minite1
Another one

You gotta be able to build key industries: oil refineries, steel mills, and power plants. I think those three are a must. I mentioned the "factory concept" earlier because I think power, electricity, is the key to increasing production and I don't think a countries power should be limited by hard code files. Just a thought.

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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23369 von Riko
@minite

many people say, that the ki is absolutly ok. in arangement with ohter games., the ki in hoi is ok. in this case, that the allicountrys not that do, what they must, you can take the supreme command. i do it so.
for excample. as a german you want to send troops to north africa. then i run with the troops to neaple. than i take the supreme command from italy, drive with italy transporter to neaple. then i transfer my german troops with the italy transporter to the north of africe. it is fine. helmi_hihi

understand you correctly, that you play with the provincemap?

this one?

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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23607 von Anonym

minite1 schrieb: Another change I would like to see is airbase, army bases, and naval bases. I read earlier that some would like to have corps commanders with numerous divisions under them. If every unit build was "assigned to a fix location like kiel air base" the you could order the air base to air superiority instead of each individual division. Each type of base should have a limit (capacity) of maximum number of units and would also be the source for all supply and reinforcements. The "bases" would have to be immobile, destroyable, repairable, and upgradeable. I think it would fix the "carrier disaster in hoi1 and 2 by allowing carriers to have aircraft units assigned to them. You could then give order to a fleet for combat air patrol and the ship would cycle those orders down to every units assigned. The same would work for army, naval, and air bases. A player could still override the corps orders by selecting and giving direct divisional orders. I think because of the number of divisions in a corps the orders would have to be like "attack this region" instead of attack moscow because the separate division may be spread out over a large distance. Another might be secure perimeter. There are a lot of potential orders that would be different for a army/corps and division.

Air transport is a must. I'm not talking about just paratrooper but any unit. infantry, mountaineers, marines, militia, and or course paratroopers should have the ability to be air transported from one airfield to another (not airborne assault). I think with technology and equipment is should be possible to transports heavier units later in the game.

That brings up the sea transport question. The transports in the game are basic freight and cargo transports. They require ports facilities to load and unload and are not capable of doing amphibious assaults. It means a new class of ships will be required like "landing ships or assault ships". Most navies of the time had them.

Naval Yards are not naval bases or ports. Bases can do minor repair and supply while ports can supply but neither can produce ships. Naval Yards take many years to develop and build and it's those facilities that separate the great navies from every other country. Regardless of the IC or factories a country has without naval yards (which have a building capacity) a country cannot produce ships. I think that should go for even land, and air units. I would show how the major players were "arms" producers for minors. I think it could bring importance to diplomacy as well as a increased economic aspect.

Yes, expand teh command and control of the game to streamline it.

As I mentioned and you expanded upon, the Naval construction is simply wrong.

Its not just a matter of factories to produce ships, even small ships like destroyers, it requirtes fully equiped naval yards.

You will not find such yards in minor South american and Asian nations, yet the HoI series ships are churned out.

Producing a battleship or an aircraft carrier is more then having the materials. you must have a slip to build it on, there must be a dock big enough to service the ship and a port that will be deep enough to have the ship dock there.

Also, ships don't move to a sea area and sit there in real life the way they do in a game. They require fuel to move and food and water for their crews, and the crews need time ashoe, they cannot remain at sea for months and years at a time as they do in the game.

I would also like to see an option to purchase ships or even have another nation build you one if you pay for the materials, this is the only way a minor navy should get ships.

As the game is now you cannot show how the USA had no fear of the Soviets after WWII because the USA had complete control of the seas. The Rusians would not be able to buyild large warships until the 1950s (they only produced up to light cruisers from the 1920s through the 1950s).

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  • king cobra
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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23611 von king cobra

minite1 schrieb: Gepard,

I do the same thing if I'm not going to declare war and take a country over. If I play Germany, I usually declare war on Italy and take over the country. I hate that when, if ever, I alley with them that they don't produce any units. It doesn't matter if I take over military control or not.

I'm talking about a reactive AI instead of a "hard coded" programed response. What will the computer "ai" do if you played France and left the allies. England would not/does not stack any of their common borders because there is not a file telling them to. The entire AI folder which takes up RAM could be eliminated that would free up memory for other aspects. Look at all the files required to be in the RAM at anytime for the game to play; that's a lot of memory before any other "savegame" files are needed. I'm thinking the game engine needs tweaked a bit. I've played a lot of games too and seen responsive AI's make even stupid concept games fun. Most of the mod sites for HOI all focus on improving the AI in some way and graphics, icons, and others are a side note. An good example of what I'm talking about is by playing germany, saving your game, reloading it and picking england, france, us, or russia and looking at what the computer ai was building in response to what you had done in germany (it doesn't respond) because random events give a country like england destroyers whenever germany triggers the event by building submarines. Another example is why japan stops it's advance in china because they have already occupied every target province. I basically want a computer AI that will kick my bootie and take names, and I believe a changing value system will do that.



You have got to get DAIM, the Determined AI Mod!!! helmi_nenene
You can find it at the paradox forums.

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  • minite1
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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23630 von minite1
I just thought of another one. The ability to equip units with special tools like the brigades for ships in Armageddon. For instance tanks could be "equipped with night version, thermal imaging, forging kit, reactive armor, and things like that.

I'm thinking it would make the game very interesting with all the possibilities, especially for modders. It would add some techs and show how units of the same type are completely different on the battlefield because of the way they are equipped.

The Basic concept is - Armies or made up of Divisions which can consist of up to 10 brigades (all with their own sprites) and each brigade can be equipped differently adding special abilities. I think it would make the game limitless because it would seldom every be exactly the same. I doubt any two divisions would have the exact same makeup.

An example:

An Armored Div would have 990 units
99 Panthers in the first brigade
99 Panthers in the second
99 Panthers in the third
99 Self-Propelled Art in the fourth
99 Tank Destroyers in the fifth
99 Motorized Inf in the sixth
99 Combat Support (Engineers) in the seventh
99 Supply in the eight
99 Support (Personnel) in the ninth
99 Maintenance in the tenth

The strength of the division would be based on the makeup of each brigade assigned with the special abilities of each brigade as well. Because the makeup of the example consists of mostly tanks, it's sprite would be that of a Panther even though it would have art, tk dest, mot inf, and other with it. Wouldn't that make sense?

king cobra,

How do you get that mod and is it compatible with Armageddon?

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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23631 von Riko
@ minite

oh, you dobnt know daim?
sorry, i had tell you that.

daim is only a ki mod, how king cobra said. it "repairs many things" and the ki build much much better. i will never play without daim in the future.

for example.
japan build in the 36 campaign many many garrisons. that is with daim nor problem. he do that not. he build with more intelligence. :guck:

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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23642 von Riko
daim for dd, and daim for armageddon.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/for ... c1f7&f=298

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  • king cobra
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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23646 von king cobra
Heres the link to the paradox subforum. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/for ... .php?f=298

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  • minite1
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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #23699 von minite1
I think that urban provinces should be alterations to the basic terrain instead of a terrain type. A urban area in the mountains or swamp (Geneva or New Orleans, LA) would be tough to take. The same is true for forest, deserts, and jungles. They are basically just a change to the general terrain. I guess basic terrain would just need to be plains, hills, mountain, swamps or marsh, and tundra because everything else would be just alterations of them.

oh yeah, much smaller provinces. some of those things are almost continents. maybe like breaking the size up of provinces by land area. Africa, Australia, India, and most of America especially central and south need a lot more provinces. just my opinion.

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  • king cobra
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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #24030 von king cobra

minite1 schrieb: I think that urban provinces should be alterations to the basic terrain instead of a terrain type. A urban area in the mountains or swamp (Geneva or New Orleans, LA) would be tough to take.


Urban Provence types represent truly massive cites with sprawling suburbs..etc.. The dominant obstacle in the Provence would thus be the urban environment it self, not the hills or forests.

Cities such as LA, or New Orleans are not large enough to qualify as urban, the actual cities at this time would be less of a challenge for a military planner then the swamps or hills.

I think it is important to keep something like terrain type simple, so in a fast paced game you can quickly ascertain the terrain type of a Provence.

oh yeah, much smaller provinces. some of those things are almost continents. maybe like breaking the size up of provinces by land area. Africa, Australia, India, and most of America especially central and south need a lot more provinces. just my opinion.


This would be a nice addition to the game, as many of the battles you fight seem to simplistic to play out, like the breakout from Normandy for instance. I'm pretty sure it would cost more computing power the more provinces there are, due to the fact that the AI has to make more detailed decisions.

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  • king cobra
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13 Jahre 7 Monate her #24053 von king cobra

gepard schrieb: and paris with 10 000 000 people who living there?

we had a great discuss in the german part.
i think, because minsk had since 1940 230 000 people, and paradox make this province to urban. but paris with 10 000 000 people not?


The argument I've always heard is the "open city" one, that the French would not want to see the icon of their society destroyed in a futile battle.
I think it should have been made an urban Provence, with an event to trigger on weather the French surrender it or not. Maybe if they chose to fight and lost, they would get a hefty dissent hit, and vice versa for if they won the battle.(this would make for a fun decision for a human player). 8-)

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