[HoI2 Arma] Questions aboout fleets?

  • gauthijm
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10 Jahre 9 Monate her #1 von gauthijm
I have a general question about HOI 2: Armageddon 1.2 fleet (naval) combat

Point 1:
Last night, I had 4 fleets all moving from 1 sea zone to another,and they got involved in combat; after multiple interruptions of their move, and several combats, my 69 ships , in 4 different fleets, sunk nothing !

This has kept happening, with my fleets numbering BB's (with Capital FC), several small and large carriers, encountering enemy ships/fleets, entering combat(the graphics show ships firing, and a combat happening), with a results at the end of me winning the combat, and never 1 ship sunk!

what is happening ?

I spent a fortune building a big navy, for this ?

Point 2:

When I click in a sea zone where I want my fleets to patrol (Naval combat Patrol mission etc), why does my 4 fleets split up and go in every direction, with my biggets fleet deciding to go back to PORT ?? (Wilshemhaven I think)... What the hell ?

Help!

This is driving me nuts, huge fleets never sinking anything, and I build a 4 fleet super stack and they go in every direction, with the SAME MISSION, in the SAME seazone, when the AI has 40+ ship fleets just waiting to ambush my (now split up!) fleets ?

I need help, what is happening ?! helmi_autsch

Thanks for any advice you can tell me

Appreciate it
Jean

PS I am at work right now, and cannot post in the official Paradox forums, so any advice from the experts here is very welcome

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10 Jahre 9 Monate her #2 von Lordadmiral
I would suggset you take alook at the wiki:

for HOI2 in general:
http://www.paradoxian.org/hoi2wiki/inde ... val_Primer

and an update for DD + Arma:
http://www.paradoxian.org/hoi2wiki/inde ... _DD_Update

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then it shall find a people of men, not weaklings, who will powerfully grip their trusted weapon.
The form of this weapon is not so important, if hands of steel and hearts of iron employ it."
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  • gauthijm
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10 Jahre 9 Monate her #3 von gauthijm
ANy highlights ?

I am at work and cannot open those files to read them..

AM I doing something bad , like over stacking ?

I do remember that as being possible, but remember, the UK is also building super stacks and would overwhelm me badly (My top admiral, Raeder can control 30 ships,)

BTW, I habve 100% efficiency with Capitals/Escorts on a 1-1 basis, so I know I don't have a problem there.

ANy immediate advice, etc, as I cannot look up the links furnished above

Thx in advance
Jean

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10 Jahre 9 Monate her #4 von Thork
First of all I haven't played in a while and I'm no marine expert... Besides it's allways a difference if you play with mods or vanilla.

Anyway, you should take a look at each fleet leaders max command limit (max number of units under command).. If your leader exceeds his command limit his fleets efficiency will decrease.
A patrol area consists of multiple sea provinces. Your fleets will patrol these provinces in no specific order (but head out to help other fleets in battle).
Your subs may just not have sufficient range to get to the specified patrol area so they return back home (that's what ships do when they are out of orders.)
If you like multiple fleets to head to the same sea province you got to use the naval interdiction (smaller area) or normal move options.

A battle doesn't allways mean ships get sunk. There are many parameters which influence sea battles. F.ex. weather conditions have an influence on how close the opponents will get to each other.
Inferior fleets will most likely try to evade a battle...

If your battle lasts less than an hour than there most likely was no real battle... :guck:
You may also check your supply level...

Ich hätte nicht übel Lust in ein kleines, wehrloses Land einzumarschieren und dort eine Terror-Herrschaft zu errichten... aber sowas tut man ja nicht...
I wouldn't mind invading a small, defenseless country, installing a terror-regime... but you shouldn't...
Walter Moers: Kleines Arschloch

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  • lordgoof
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10 Jahre 9 Monate her #5 von lordgoof
range has a lot to do with it. seeing as you have carriers, your optimal distance is probably around the 200km mark (depending on CAG) so about 90% of your fleet is just sitting there using fuel. put your curser over the battle bar and it will tell you the optimal distance for bothe fleets and the distance you are actually at.

also if your fleet is kick arse the other one will just spend the entire battle trying to flee. hense you not doing any damage.

another thing. if you have the superior fleet the UK fleet probably just rebases. meaning bring out your bombers and bomb the crap out of the english ports. you will always do damage there.

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10 Jahre 9 Monate her #6 von Wolf

gauthijm schrieb: Point 2:
why does my biggets fleet deciding to go back to PORT ?? (Wilshemhaven I think)... What the hell ?

Like Bubi said it, it is possible that your ships range is not big enough.

Small ships (destroyers, light cruisers) have allways less range than the bigger ones (by equal level of course) - that means if you have some battleships with 3.500 range and a couple of destroyers with 2.000 range your fleet won't move more than 2.000.

It is also possible that your fleet's organisation is too low for your missions.
In that case the fleet automatically returns to its home harbour and waits untill it has enough organisation and then starts the mission.
But you can set this when choosing the mission - I prefer choosing 30% or 30 Points. The fleet will then return automatically to its port if the organisation or hitpoints are less than 30, but it is always the average strength/organisation of the whole fleet.

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  • gauthijm
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10 Jahre 9 Monate her #7 von gauthijm
You guys are great!

superb advice here, still seems as too many fights happen with large carrier fleets on both sides with no losses whatsoever, but I will try what you said already.

It's hilarious that my huge carrier TF, under G.A. Raeder has killed almost nothing in game (many victories with no losses on either side), and a smaller Task Force I have, with CVL's and CA's has killed 2x British CV's and a CVL in 1 engagement.

Something is very, very screwy in denmark here (or anywhere else for that matter)

Even my BB/CVL SAG has killed more already, yet my 3x CV-3 and 3x CV-4 Task Force gets in combat, and kills nothing but some transports and once in a while, a DD..

Argh, what a mess!

Take care
Jean

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  • Lt. J.B. Nerhood
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10 Jahre 9 Monate her #8 von Lt. J.B. Nerhood
Hi Jean. Welcome to the DMP Forum if we haven't already made welcome to you. :welcome:

There is a thread here in the HOI/DD Topic Index regarding the force compostions of surface fleets. <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href=" heartsofiron.eu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1356 ">viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1356<!-- l --> You may find it of some value. Also, in the AAR section (English) there is an excellent AAR by Montan_Prussian with the title "Kriegsmarine!" <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href=" heartsofiron.eu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3704 ">viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3704<!-- l --> You might discover a few tips and/or tricks that he used to construct a massive surface fleet. Along with his AAR I would suggest reading the "Comments" section that follows the action of his campaign. If I recall correctly he does discuss how he composes and uses his fleets.

And . . .

He-Man, Bubi and Wolf are all correct in thier suggestions as well. Your fleet commanders have a direct bearing on how your fleets will operate. Specifically, if you assign a commander who is a "Blockade Runner" to a Task Force with Carriers, Battleships and a compliment of escort vessels don't expect alot of shooting. He will atempt to avoid battle. A commander who is a "Superior Tactician" will stand and fight. A "Spotter" is better at locating the enemy fleet and he will stand and fight as well but, not as long as the aggressive tactician. Correspondingly, a commanders' "Command Capacity" is a very important consideration. Grand Admirals can command 30 vessels. This is the maximum allowable by the game. (An historical note; In reality, during WWII the US 7th Fleet, under Halsey, had some 100+ ships assigned to it. The game designers had to place some limitations on the size of Armies, Air Forces and Fleets for play purposes. What we do, in game, is actually creating what are known as "Task Forces". These designations are the smaller forces that actually make up the total composition of an Operational Fleet). If you place more units under the command of an officer whose limits are exceeded, your overall combat results and operational characteristics will be affected. Just one extra vessel will create an adverse penalty for an commander regardless of his capabilites. I speak from personal experience.

The more advanced your ships are the greater the operational ranges and capabilites. Level I subs are not able to patrol at the ranges like the level III or IV. Some of your smaller escort ships are limited in range as well.

The type of mission given to a fleet will affect combat results. This fact applies to both fleets in an engagement. Example: You assign a fleet a "Combat Patrol" mission, which covers a vast amount of ocean, and send them off with well wishes. Several days later they make contact with an enemy fleet. But, the enemy fleet's mission is "Interdictio". Combat will not last long and the enemy fleet will break contact before any real damage is done. (This may explain why your surface actions are not resulting in any enemy ships being sunk).

So, now that I've bored you to death I do hope that this will help your game experience while still enjoying the game.


helmi_salut helmi_salut helmi_cool helmi_cool

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10 Jahre 3 Monate her #9 von blue emu

gauthijm schrieb: You guys are great!

superb advice here, still seems as too many fights happen with large carrier fleets on both sides with no losses whatsoever... It's hilarious that my huge carrier TF, under G.A. Raeder has killed almost nothing in game (many victories with no losses on either side), and a smaller Task Force I have, with CVL's and CA's has killed 2x British CV's and a CVL in 1 engagement.

Early-war Carriers are quite ineffective. They have less anti-ship attack than a Heavy Cruiser, and only early-war Doctrines. By 1943, up-to-date Carriers will be far more effective.

Another point is the composition of your naval Task Forces. From reading this thread, I get the impression that you were initially using Task Forces containing mixtures of CVs, BBs, CAs and screens, and that you later switched to more specialized Task Forces... seperating the CVs into their own CTFs, and putting the BBs and/or the CAs into SAGs. This is an excellent move, since the different ship types have different strong and weak points... and they can interfere with each other if used in poor combinations, or enhance each other if properly combined.

A typical 18-ship CTF might look like:

7 (use 9 if 1943+ and Base Strike Doctrine) CVs
2 (use none if 1943+ and Base Strike Doctrine) CVLs
9 DDs

A typical 18-ship BB-SAG might look like:

7 (use 6 if expecting Surface opposition) BB-FX
2 CVLs
9 (use 10 if expecting Surface opposition) DDs (use CLs if expecting Air opposition)

A typical 18-ship Cruizerg SAG might look like:

5 CAs (unbrigaded)
2 CVLs
11 CL-FX

(FX of course stands for Fire Control).

Another point worth bearing in mind when composing your Naval Task Forces is the mechanism that the game uses to determine "Preferred Optimum Range"... the engagement range that this particular Task Force will be trying to reach in Naval combat. The game engine appears to use the following decision-tree:

1) Does this fleet contain at least one CV? (Note: CVs only... CVLs don't count!)
- if YES : POR = 90% of the maximum range of the shortest-ranged CV in the fleet.
- if NO :

2) Is the fleet composed entirely of Submarines (or a mix of Submarines and Transports)?
- if YES : POR = 90% of the maximum range of the shortest-ranged Submarine in the fleet.
- if NO :

3) Does the fleet contain any non-CV Capital ships (SHBBs, BBs, BCs, CAs, CVLs)?
- if YES : POR = 90% of the maximum range of the shortest-ranged Capital ship in the fleet.
- if NO :

4) Does the fleet contain any armed ships?
- if YES : POR = 90% of the maximum range of the shortest-ranged armed ship in the fleet.
- if No : POR = 200+ km

Examples: A fleet composed of 1 SHBB, 4 BBs, 1 CA, 4 CLs and 4 DDs will try to close in to 90% of the maximum range of the CA, since the CA is the shortest-ranged non-CV Capital ship in the fleet. A Task Force that was identical except for an added CV-II would instead try to stand off at 90% of the CV's maximum range.

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