[HoI2] German Strategy '36

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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #1 von bubi
What is your approach when you play as Germany at the start of 1936?

how do you set your diplomatic sliders? (on economics, army.. etc)

what's your ministers of choice before the invasion of poland?

what's your build quota (timeline) on the factories?

what's your priority and timeline for tech research and armament productions?

how do your plan your conquest with the minimum forces possible?

who do your ally, who do you annex on continental europe?

how do you plan your offensive in each of your operation?

thank you helmi_salut

cheers helmi_bier

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  • Lt. J.B. Nerhood
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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #2 von Lt. J.B. Nerhood
Ok. I'll give you my two-cents worth . . .

1. Approach: In my most recent game as Germany I first determined my overall strategic objective. It was to survive as a sovereign nation untill 1953 irrespective of territorial gains/losses.

My next decision is wether to concentrate on building an Army and Air Force while only building U-boats or, build a larger Naval force and an average sized land force. I nearly always opt for the former.

2. Diplomacy. I usually don't screw with thier settings. I let the "political reality" of National Socialism stand. I do adjust the "Standing Army" sliders towards standing army to facilitary a rapid upgrade when new tecnology is available.

3. Choice of ministers. I let it stand with two exceptions: 1. Schacht remains as armaments minister; 2: I unload Goring and replace him with Udet.

More to follow . . . . Time for Kaffe :kaffee:

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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #3 von Lt. J.B. Nerhood
4. Build quota: Maximum on everything I deem neccesary to achieve Land and Air Supremacy. ( I still have yet to develop a sound Naval doctrine for Germany. Montana has given me new and fresh insights into the possibilites of German Naval Supremacy though) Factories are a bit dicey from time to time especially if one lacks energy and rare material requirements. However, I have found that conquest of certain regions usually compensates for that deficit in the short run.

5. Research priorities. In the begining stages, by that I mean prior to 1939, I concentrate on getting all of my Assembly line technology in place, with the exception of Rocket line technology. I also modernized, as far as possible, all existing Panzer, Infantry, support brigades and Luftwaffe. If time and research teams allow I also advance my oil refining and agricultural abilites as far as possible prior to the start of war with Poland.

More to come . . . . . Kaffe Zeit :kaffee:

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  • Lt. J.B. Nerhood
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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #4 von Lt. J.B. Nerhood
6. Conquest/Available forces. I have two rules of thumb that I subscribe to:

Rule 1. George S. Patton School of Warfare; Be the firstest with the mostest!
Rule 2. When in doubt rule #1 applies.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear".

7. Alliances/Annexation. If at all possible I always ally with Italy, Bulgaria and Romania. Sometimes I get lucky and get Nationalist Spain in an alliance as well. Any nation that is conquered is annexed. Germany needs the resources. It's that simple. Also, I usually never bother with invading Norway. This avoids having to deal with defending supply convoys to and from Norway.

( Once, last year I think it was, I played as Germany and, after recereating history on the continent, I was able to pull off a landing in Iceland and boot out the US occupation force. I used a rather large Infantry force of 9 divisions to secure Iceland. My plan was to use Iceland as a naval base to harras UK supply in the North Atlantic. I had a hell of a time getting any U-boots into Reykjavik and it was nearly impossible to keep the supply convoys adequately defended in order to maintain my occupation force and supply the U-boats. I eventually gave up on it.)

8. Operational plans. When I attack Poland I try to recreate the actual operation as executed in 1939. I try to have more Armor. I do the same with Denmark, the Benelux, and France. Again, I usually try have a larger force by May of 1940 though than actually existed. Russia is a toss-up. I've tried mech-heavy forces, I've tried large masses of infantry, I've tried balanced forces. The thing that works the best is a mech-heavy force with a 2:1 ratio of infantry to Armor. I also go with alot of fighters and tactical bombers. Fighter to gain either air superiority or air supremacy and tactical bombers to reduce enemy organization and rout them more quickly. When attacking Russia I look for opportunities to create encirclements and eleminate entire Army's if possible.

There it is Bubi. helmi_salut Time for more Kaffe. :kaffee:

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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #5 von Karbe

bubi schrieb:
when you have to choose bewteen central planning and standing army, which one will you execute first?


Standing Army, because of the more of experience by the new built units and the perfect time-zone to upgrade the start-units between Munich and January 39


Greets

Wasser ? .. ich will mich nicht waschen, ich habe Durst ![/b]

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  • Lt. J.B. Nerhood
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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #6 von Lt. J.B. Nerhood

bubi schrieb: @ Jefferey?

when you have to choose bewteen central planning and standing army, which one will you execute first? i mean central planning lows the salaries and other stuff i can't remeber helmi_baeh , and satnding army gives you faster upgrade and quick experience gain on your troops?


when you have to choose bewteen two ministers with one that gives you 15% bonus on industry capacity while the other gives you only 10% bonus on industry capacity but 5% bonus on tech research, who will you go after and why?

a thank you in advance

cheers helmi_bier



I always go for a standing Army over cash. Germany doesn't need a great deal of money at the start. I'll flirt a bit with a free market system after France falls but the system is set up to prevent the German player from going full Market Liberal. I've been "Social Conservative" serveral times but that always screws up who's available in the ministers pool.


When choosing ministers I always opt for the man with the best I/C bonus in the begining. After France falls I will remain with that same person unless I'm in a hurry to develop a weapons system or weapons platform for a big push somewhere.


Understand this though: What I am stating is all preferential for me. Your overall strategic situation will dictate the details regarding ministers.

Also, I have learned that there is no substitute for a large quality force. (Patton's Principle #1) So when it's time to upgrade I always ensure that I have lot of I/C to make it happen and not disrupt supply and material production already in the que. To that end, I'm always building I/C. But, It's a double edged sword. I/C eats up resources - at an enormous rate. Hence the priority on annexing resource rich provinces versus making puppets. Annexation makes thier resources mine.

Am I making sense, Bubi or just rambling? helmi_salut

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  • lordgoof
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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #7 von lordgoof
if you are planning on plaing long enough. i start getting a series of 41' carriers going in 1941. 2 series if i have the spare ic. means i have a chance of a south american invasion by 44/45 with about 6 or 8 carriers.

for russia i focus on armour/mech at about 1:1.5 with a main focus of trapping infantry. superior airforce helps considerably on the russian front, as does hq's covering the whole advance.

level 3 subs are cheap. 1.9 IC. and in the early stages sparing 10 or so IC can net you a huge sub force over a year or so.

with nationalist spain, i generally just invade in about 1943 when russia is just about beat i begin transferring troops for sealion.

and now to answer your questions.

don't start building industry until you occuoy the rhineland. and then i build 2 x 10 industry.

my first slider goes to hawk, then the rest to standing army.

for tech, it kind of just happens, sometimes i will focus on tank and infantry sometimes on navy and sometimes on airforce.

with the end of checzoslavakia i give it to hungry now. seems that hungryu builds more guys than slovakia does........but i think it is preference.

with poland, i invade with 27 infantry divisions and 21 tank divisions, all in groups of 3.

then invade belgioum with everything i got except for the guys watching the maginot line. often i have had the chance to break through the maginot line. (after bombing with bombers and it is a much quicker fall if you can do that.

with allying, i ally the oil nations (romania and bulgaria) and italy and invade everyone else. as germany, i don't make any puppets, there aren't any good puppet nations (unless you refuse bitter peace and take all of russia).

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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #8 von bubi

don't start building industry until you occuoy the rhineland. and then i build 2 x 10 industry.


that's pretty much what i did. i built roughly 10~12 factory in '36 and '37. i don't build 'em in serierial run because gearing bounus doesn't apply to building factories (i think).

my first slider goes to hawk, then the rest to standing army.


i think you can get free hawk moves (at least two) with the events when you play germany.

for tech, it kind of just happens, sometimes i will focus on tank and infantry sometimes on navy and sometimes on airforce.


for tech i concentrated on the industry techs in '36, then just one slot for the tech research and the other four slots for my army and air force techs.

with the end of checzoslavakia i give it to hungry now. seems that hungryu builds more guys than slovakia does........but i think it is preference.


i agrred with you completely here, with the exception of annexing hungary then re-release them so they can recieve my superior tech as my puppet.

with allying, i ally the oil nations (romania and bulgaria) and italy and invade everyone else. as germany, i don't make any puppets, there aren't any good puppet nations (unless you refuse bitter peace and take all of russia).


again in a complete agreement with you. when you are germany, you can pretty much take on everyone (but not all at once like hitler did).

thanks for the imput, lordgoof. helmi_salut

cheers helmi_bier

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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #9 von bubi
i would like to know the troop levels (unit strength) by the time case white and case yellow starts.

can you guys give me a quickies on what units you build and how many units you build (in series, parallel) in 36, 37, 38, and til sept 39?

thank you helmi_salut

cheers helmi_bier

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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #10 von bubi

Lt. J.B. Nerhood schrieb: 4. Build quota: Maximum on everything I deem neccesary to achieve Land and Air Supremacy. ( I still have yet to develop a sound Naval doctrine for Germany. Montana has given me new and fresh insights into the possibilites of German Naval Supremacy though) Factories are a bit dicey from time to time especially if one lacks energy and rare material requirements. However, I have found that conquest of certain regions usually compensates for that deficit in the short run.

5. Research priorities. In the begining stages, by that I mean prior to 1939, I concentrate on getting all of my Assembly line technology in place, with the exception of Rocket line technology. I also modernized, as far as possible, all existing Panzer, Infantry, support brigades and Luftwaffe. If time and research teams allow I also advance my oil refining and agricultural abilites as far as possible prior to the start of war with Poland.

More to come . . . . . Kaffe Zeit :kaffee:


in regard to #4

how do you plan your serial runs? i mean you get to play around with the sliders to maximized gearing bonus if you choose to go that way. on ther hand if you do that, then you are likely to suffer on the upgrading time and cost unless you flip other slides. could you tell me more about how you adjust the slides from '36 til war with poland, please?

in regard to #5

based on what you told me here, did you research industry tech in '36, infantry, tank & artillary tech in 37, and air force tech in '38, and then full production runs in late '38?


cheers helmi_bier

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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #11 von blue emu
Lately I've been trying out a very different opening strategy for Germany... not so much because I think that it's better than the usual IC-whoring sit-back-and-build-Factories strategy, as because I find it a more entertaining way to play the first three years of the game.

Instead of remaining passive from 1936 until fall 1939, I've been playing as actively as possible without actually provoking a Declaration of War from the UK or France, and without losing out on any of my core-granting scripted events (Anschluss, Sudetenland, Munich, etc).

From the start of the game, I start building some additional forces: one long 99-unit serial of obsolete Medium Armor-IIs, three long 99-unit serials of Infantry-36 and one serial of Naval Transports plus one spare Naval Transport (not in serial). I often add a serial of Militia as well. While those units are building, I start influencing Austria until I can ally with them, usually around the end of February 1936...

... and yes, I know that the Anschluss will not fire if I am allied to Austria. Bear with me... my evil plan helmi_teufel will become obvious later on in this post...

By March 1936, I am allied with Austria and I move most of my army into Austria, and line it up along the Hungarian border. Then I declare war on Hungary and invade them. Naturally, since I am invading from Austrian territory, all the newly conquered territory will go to my ally Austria, not to me... that's OK, it's part of the evil plan. I destroy the Hungarian Army and occupy all their Victory Point locations EXCEPT ONE, and then sit back and wait a couple of weeks. Since I have left one VP unconquered, Austria cannot annex them.

After a few weeks, Italy will declare war on me, because I violated their Guarantee of Independance by attacking Hungary. I then quickly occupy the last Hungarian VP (so that my ally Austria can annex them), and attack Italy. I conquer northern Italy, push my way down "the boot", and by-pass Rome... in order to avoid Gearing-Up the USA, who get a Gearing event if Rome falls...and continue to conquer Italian provinces until Mussolini sues for peace. I insist on getting the port of Venice as part of the peace deal, but anything else is just a bonus. Again, all the newly conquered territory goes to Austria, not to me.

This puts me back at peace, and my Belligerence will still be too low for either the UK or France to declare war on me. When the Spanish Civil War starts, I will check to see if my Belligerence allows me to directly intervene... usually, I can do so.

Instead of declaring war on Republican Spain (which would cause both a Dissent hit and a Belligerence hit), I will influence Franco until Nationalist Spain is willi ng to join the Axis... usually a 49% chance when at +200 relations. I then invite him into the Axis (which costs me no Belligerence or Dissent at all) and send an expeditionary force to Spain, to help Franco win the Civil War. The fighting is always over in time for me to return to peace, kick Austria out of the Axis (so that the Anschluss event will now fire normally), and start shedding Belligerence at -0.5 points per month, thanks to Hitler's special trait.

When the Anschluss comes around, I inherit not only Austria, but all of the conquests that were made in Austria's name... Hungary and northern Italy.

This active plan leaves me very well positioned for the opening of the war in fall 1939. I will already have a large territory, with high ICs and Manpower income; a port on the Mediterranean at Venice from which I can strike at Suez and Alexandria, and an ally (Franco) who is already adjacent to Gibraltar. In addition, my soldiers will have earned a lot of battlefield experience, and several Leaders will have received promotions.

All of this can be accomplished without ever raising my Belligerence high enough to provoke a Declaration of War from France or the UK... and without missing out on any of the core-granting scripted events.

Check out my thread "The Anschluss of Everybody" in the Paradox Doomsday Forum, for a full treatment and play-through of the strategy.

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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #12 von blue emu

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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #13 von bubi

blue emu schrieb:
not so much because I think that it's better than the usual IC-whoring


that's a very interesting way to put it. and men your idea sound totally awesome. i had tinkered with the idea of acquiring the nothern part of italy for their factory-rich provinces for sometime but did not know how to do this without triggering all the unpleasant side-effect. i will definitely try that now in my next game.

the only similarity between my strategy on hungary and yours on austria is that i partition slovakia with hungary first, then i assumed military control to disband their army. by the time danzig kicks in, the polish force will move in and annexed hungary, then i start to move in on poland and in term annexed them, then release hungary so they can have my tech as my puppet.

i haven't finish your thread in paradox yet, but i might have more questions. helmi_joint

that's a great idea, thanks for sharing.

cheers helmi_bier

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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #14 von bubi

Lt. J.B. Nerhood schrieb: @Bubi:

This is copied from blue emu:
From the start of the game, I start building some additional forces: one long 99-unit serial of obsolete Medium Armor-IIs, three long 99-unit serials of Infantry-36 and one serial of Naval Transports plus one spare Naval Transport (not in serial).


i have a question. if you start to produce right away in '36 would your supplies take some hits ove the year.? were y ou able to maintain a positive supply flow?

in my game i don't start my production until in the mid '38. and i'm trading my resources with +150 in coal, +160 in metals, +106 ~+80 on rare materials and +30 on my supplies.

cheers helmi_bier

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10 Jahre 11 Monate her #15 von blue emu

bubi schrieb: i have a question. if you start to produce right away in '36 would your supplies take some hits ove the year.? were y ou able to maintain a positive supply flow?

in my game i don't start my production until in the mid '38. and i'm trading my resources with +150 in coal, +160 in metals, +106 ~+80 on rare materials and +30 on my supplies.

cheers helmi_bier

I find that only Supplies, Oil and Rares really need to be stockpiled, since you will over-run large amounts of Energy and Steel when you conquer Poland, the Low Countries and France. Trading my extra Energy with other countries will give me lots of Supplies, which I can then trade to the USSR for Rares and Oil... and my new ally, Nationalist Spain will also give me Rares for Energy.

I had no real problem keeping a good stockpile, even with 220 units built before "Danzig or War".

One point of this strategy that I should draw attention to is Belligerence management... France or the UK will DoW you if your Belligerence rises too high, so in most games Germany either "plays nice" until 1939, or at most fights only one "pre-war" war. My method offers an improvement on this, because since I attack from Austrian territory, all the new provinces go to them, and so does the Belligerence for capturing and annexing provinces... and when Anschluss comes around, Austria disappears from the game... taking those Belligerence points with them! This allows me to be more active in the early years than would normally be the case, because I have a convenient "hole" to dump the Belligerence into.

bubi schrieb: how would you defend the sky over the reich? how do you distribute your radar towers, build your flak and its flanking power? the number and the type of aircrafts patrolling over the sky and how do you group them to fight against the enemy bombers/fighers/interceptors?

I like to have at least four (and sometimes five) 4-Squadron groups of Interceptors before the big war starts in fall 1939. One group patrols Mecklenburg, another patrols Westfalen, another patrols the French border across from the Maginot Line (Baden-Wurtemburg?) and the fourth group is used to cover operations in Poland.

After I have four or five Interceptor groups built for home defense, I switch to building Fighters, which have advantages later in the war (ie: a more direct upgrade path to Turbojet model).

Static-AA (Flak) is rather weak early in the war, but becomes quite devastating by 1943 or so. RADAR is only really useful on static fronts... so I would only build it if I am not planning Operation Sealion.

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